Resolved - New Idea to Minr

[Crazypkr]

Hello, as you may know, I am Crazypkr. I have made many mistakes in the past and I want to instead help the community. So firstly, ANYTHING I say, is just a suggestion and is not meant to cause any argument of any kind to the server's community. Secondly, ANY rude/uncalled for messages in this thread will be removed so please don't cause any negativity in this thread.

As I spent my last 9-10 months on Minr, I seen how maps were built and how the quality is changing. New items are implemented in, new ideas are storming through the creative clouds. But I also see that many maps look very good for them being built in the survival world. I would like to request a change to the way this works.

Firstly, I think that survival worlds are a great way for the greenies to interact with each other and spend quality time on the server. But I do believe we could maybe do better for the way our maps system works. My idea is to create a totally different world with the creative rights for greenies which would allow them to build more creative and quality maps. I'd like to point out that the best looking maps on the server, are which that /give was used to get the blocks. Nothing is wrong with this, but I think if greenies had an option to have a creative server to design maps, then we would be able to have more qualities maps without the annoyance of gathering all the materials.

The way this could be done is pretty straight forward:
~ Multiverse Plugin - Allows multiple worlds into minecraft. For example, one world for survival and one for creative.
~ Editing the permissions - Minr Staff members would easily be able to add the command to allow only greenies to travel between worlds. This would allow access between the main survival world and the map-building world.

I know this server is very limited to the amount of plugins we could add, but adding this plugin would be extremely beneficial to the greenies.

We could maybe add it when our servers are upgraded so that way we have no problems with the amount of plugins on the server?

I just wanted to address this and hopefully maybe be able to get the right attention from the operators that work extremely hard to get Minr to the way it is.

Please do NOT vote in the polls if you are a whitey, only blues/greens/ops allowed. Thanks

 

[Freakworld]

I only upload high quality maps.

 

[Crazypkr]

I only upload high quality maps.

Yes, I am not stating that everyone uploads crappy maps in no means. What I ment is that, it would be easier for people to upload better maps because they arn't limited to the type of block they can add.

 

[frogbreath1]

What if people were alloud to make maps in creative... But the maps were held to a MUCH MUCH Higher standard than regular made maps. Also maps made in creative shouldn't be able to go into ffa+... Maybe a different creative world for them? copy/paste? or in the end.

 

[rebplane]

I thought there was already a forum discussion about this, not sure though, I could be mistaken.

If we had a creative server, what would happen to the survival one? To build maps, most greens would be going straight to the creative server. Ever since the server started people have been in survival to build maps and I do not think there should be reason to change now.

In terms of resources, warp r has most of the resources you need.

 

[Crazypkr]

I thought there was already a forum discussion about this, not sure though, I could be mistaken.

If we had a creative server, what would happen to the survival one? To build maps, most greens would be going straight to the creative server. Ever since the server started people have been in survival to build maps and I do not think there should be reason to change now.

In terms of resources, warp r has most of the resources you need.

Yes that is true, but that doesnt mean people can ditch survival.. survival can still be a place for people to build homes and actually play them game. If they want to build a high quality map (like heckin said), then they could build in creative.

 

[Jkjkelly1]

The Multiverse plugin creates a huge strain on servers, as instead of dealing with ONE map being loaded at a time, it has to load multiple.

I also do not like the idea of allowing greens to have creative mode. In my opinion, it would only create more lower-quality/incomplete maps. The way it is now, and what I've noticed green doing, is if they give up on a map, the map is often times recycled. If everyone had creative, it'd be much easier to just start over from scratch, leaving the old map just sitting there, unused. ATM while maps take longer to create, they're much higher quality than maps that are rushed through, because the builder has multiple ideas they want to do.

TL;DR: Don't add multiverse. Don't add creative, it'd only create more lower quality maps.

 

[Bobtheblob]

I thought the entire point of green was to build maps in survival, not in creative. Personally i don't think this is a good idea. I just think it takes away the point of green.

 

[rebplane]

Yes that is true, but that doesnt mean people can ditch survival.. survival can still be a place for people to build homes and actually play them game. If they want to build a high quality map (like heckin said), then they could build in creative.

Why go to survival when you have creative? Also, why can't you build a high quality map in survival? You have resource parkour and other greens to help you out. Working in survival is where I made MANY of my friends here, and working with someone to overcome challenges and make maps in survival is where greenies work together and why the server is so unique from others that have a creative world with many crappy maps.

 

[rebplane]

Also, on the quality of maps, usually the better ones aren't the ones with creative, world edit, /give and that stuff, the better ones usually are where several people/a pair of people worked together or helped in the making of that map.

 

[frogbreath1]

Sorry crazy im changiong my vote
-1 Maybe
+1 No

 

[ElectroUnderwear]

Just because greens can finish maps faster doesn't mean they would rush through it more than necessary. I don't see why they wouldn't put just as much heart and dedication into their maps, and they'd have the resources available to make even greater creations. And about servers with maps built in creative, those servers don't have the same standards we do, so their results don't apply to us. Common sense says that most people on minr wouldn't just start making crappy maps because they don't have to work as hard. The review system only reinforces this.

Reb has a decent point. I doubt that everyone would just flock there though.

Not sure about my stance on this overall

 

[Srentiln]

This was a discussion in the past. I think the general consensus now is the same as it was back then: creative should NOT be given to greens.

Why?

1. creative mode is currently reserved to OPS for the purposes of server maintenance and updating (for example, when sprinting was added to the game, several maps required modification to prevent map-breaking shortcuts)
2. many resources are easily farmable, and others are available for relatively minimal effort through the resource parkours
3. part of what makes a map a high quality map is how much pride the builder takes in their work. Builds done in creative are much less satisfying than those done in survival because of how little effort it takes in comparison. pieceofcheese and I can both tell you how discouraging building in creative can get.
4. greens + flying on a challenge course server

These are just my reasons. Other valid points have been brought up (especially the problems with the multiverse plugin).

 

[Chillers]

TL;DR: Don't add multiverse. Don't add creative, it'd only create more lower quality maps.

Pretty much what JK said you'll see far more lower quality maps as people will not put as much effort into it, the board would be jam packed with maps that were thrown together in a day or two. As an op with the ability to do anything creative spoils the game massively so it will kill minr for you.

The only way there will be creative on the server is with competitions similar to the spawn build which was semi successful. At the end of the day, the server has been around for almost 6 years without the need for creative and we host some of the nicest maps in minecraft.

 

[rmanimal]

To reasonably explain why, both psychologically and physically reasons against having creative, we need to set a scenario of this new creative green world.

Day 1: Becoming greened.
"Finally, I can put forth my ideas for maps into action. I've been thinking of a Find the Difference map for a while, let's start building it!"
"Congrats ___! Do you need a tour of minr? Don't forget to go to /warp green."

Day 3: Build complete.
"Time to submit my build! How do I submit my build?"
"You do it on the minr website, but just a word to the wise, ever since this new feature there's an overflow of maps, and changes likely will happen. It's also likely to not be noticed as easily will all these new maps."
"I'll try to get mine in though, thanks for the help."

Day 17 (2 weeks): Review Process done.
"The map didn't pass board, but why?"
"Ever since that creative update, while it was fun at first, consequences are coming. The board is harder to pass. People are having to build in plots so they don't flood minr with empty maps."

Day 31: ...
"I've done all the map ideas I could want, all queued up for review, but why isn't it like the older greens described?"
"___, let me tell you about something. What unique memories do you have with other people?"
"A lot, but..."
"Back in the survival days, greens had to work together because of survival. Because of the difficult realities we had to deal with, we had to bond together, and thus we did. We had quite a few laughs, fun, and mishaps, but it was great because conditions meant we engaged with other people, and it kept things interesting and made us grow. While it is fun to get everything you want now, you don't have a journey there anymore and therefore you will lose interest in it. While we still have a bunch of players for it being a recent creative change, that'll go away quickly because there is nothing new that can be done. Admins are also having hell. While there's a lot of space left in minr to build things, it's super easy to grief everything, and even though we have a hardcore system it's not a guaranteed that it's perfect. Anyone who is skilled enough to beat the system can grief unprotected things easily. Admins have to set new plots constantly because there's always more spots people are building maps every day. No one is bonding except to make things that'll easily become boring because they have infinite access to more of it. While people want things, sometimes it would be better where they started."

 

[Zatharel]

I agree with most of what others have said. I would also like to add that creative mode != higher quality maps.

Personally I hate using myself as an example but I have to for the sake of proving my point. Here are a few examples of greenies who have made a lot of (subjectively) good maps with only their survival skills and some occasional admin help:
-Myself. Before being promoted to mod I had made 8 maps, all of which in FFA. I do admit that I borrowed ricky's help a bit more than others did, but that was because I had already envisioned how the map should look and I only needed his help to achieve that faster.
-IanAnth66. Do you know this guy? Because damn, I know this guy. This guy is still green and is possibly the greenie with most maps that isn't a mod. Often in collaboration with other people he has so so many maps in FFA, and even a successful series of 2 maps in collaboration with piece in FFA+.
-Minty1111. Possibly the best example here. Although he is an op now, and he only made 2 maps as a greenie those 2 maps outweigh many, many maps in terms of quality. The first map, Breaking Free was both a Hardcore map and a FFA+ map. The second map was voted a FFA+ map and is now a Hardcore map.

This is something I don't understand either:

I know this server is very limited to the amount of plugins we could add, but adding this plugin would be extremely beneficial to the greenies.

We could maybe add it when our servers are upgraded so that way we have no problems with the amount of plugins on the server?

Huh? What does that mean, very limited to the amount of plugins we could add? I'm certainly not ricky, but I don't think we have such an issue...? To "upgrade" our server in any way requires more money than what is already spent on the server. I don't think it's just a matter of "adding" something.

 

[Chillers]

@IanAnth66 may want to read above ^

Also in regards to plugins, we used to use plugins that relied on other devs for their upgrades, because of this at one point we were unable to update at one point for over a month. We were unable to keep up with the latest version of MC and as a result lost many new players. Ricky has pretty much re-worked the system to keep us updated almost instantaneously.

 

[Freakworld]

I only upload high quality maps.

I am shocked how nobody got this reference.

Also, per all basically. No reason to add creative mode.